Колли , какие они были в 19 -м веке .

Chiara

Balazsovits Elena писал(а):

Для начала надо обратиться к определению породы

Вот , кстати, попалась историческая статья времен "определения" породы - From The Fanciers’ Journal, January, 1892 .

Текст: From The Fanciers’ Journal, January, 1892 .

There have been three phases, or we might call them “epochs.” in collie exhibiting, says “Trefoil.” First there came the workman epoch, when judges would only award prizes to fine working dogs; when good size, bone, legs and feet, quality and density of coat were a sine qua non, while masculine faces with intelligent expressions were looked for as the correct head properties. Then came the coat epoch, when judges went crazy over the collie’s dress, which terrible infatuation too often made them blind to the most serious defects and faults. It was then such dogs as Smuggler, Dublin Scot, Rutland and their progeny had their innings. Some call it “the flat-catcher age.” However this may be, it is true that at this time the collie, like the nightingale in the feathered world, which is voice and nothing more, had coat and little else beside to recommend it Yet the craze of this epoch was not nearly so pernicious to the collie’s welfare as is the infatuation of the present day. Judges and fanciers, with a few exceptions, now bow down and worship before the narrow head of a brainless idol.

The collie’s historic sphere of utility and unique qualities and properties with which he was so liberally endowed to carry out the arduous work in that sphere are now thought of little moment in comparison with a long, refined head and semi-erect ears. The manufacturing towns of the North appear to be the rallying point of this false worship, for seven out of every ten prize winners of this type hail from this locality. A strange nursery indeed for the guardians of the flock on the snow-clad Grampians! A poet might write some touching lines on these poor exiles; how, amid the din and bustle and smoke, they turn their sad expressionless faces towards the thin blue Hue of their native hills and sigh over an enforced degeneracy. That they are beautiful dogs in their way nobody can deny, but to speak of them as lovely collies is another matter, for the majority of them are no more fitted to perform the work of the old Scotch collie than is the Laird, the lion of some London drawing room, to pursue the avocation of his Highland shepherd. There is no reason why beauty should not go hand in hand with utility, but at present unfortunately such is not the case.

There are now two classes of exhibitors —the moderates, who work quietly on the old lines, seeking to beautify and refine a working dog, and the progressives, who sacrifice utility and intelligence for beauty. At present the progressives hold the fort, and consequently the old Scotch collie is in danger of being improved off the face of the earth. “Why did you part with that bitch which was winning for you all over the country,” said one well-known exhibitor to another. “Because she was a fool,” was the reply. This, surely, should be the true spirit. Winning honors and prizes with brainless idiots should be but a poor compensation for the loss of intelligence and companionship, which every true fancier should look #for in his dogs. Unfortunately, the spirit of mammon is abroad, and “grist to the mill” is often the sole consideration.

The Collie Club has still a great work before it, and if the members will only rally round it, giving it a genuine and hearty support, there is no question that the club will do good service in bringing forward the true stamp of collie, and ensuring success in the show ring for specimens of the right sort. At the last general meeting it was evident that many members had the welfare of the club at heart; subscriptions towards a show early in the year were liberally given and everything points to a well-deserved success. It is to be hoped that such will be the case—otherwise it will sooner or later have to be recognized that the show bench collie is absolutely distinct from his ancient prototype, and the formation of an old Scotch Collie Club will have to be seriously considered.

Among the successful dogs of the year have been Metchley Wonder, Stracathro Ralph, Sefton Hero, Mons Meg, Southport Pilot, Edgbaston Excelsior, Red Comyn, Blair Athol II and Donovan II. Metchley Wonder has been too often criticised to need repetition. Good dog that he is, as a working sheep dog he would go down before the heroes of old times. Stracathro Ralph is on more workmanlike lines, full of quality and about at the top of the tree. Southport Pilot excels in head and ears. Edgbaston Excelsior, a dog of a different type, is spoilt by his expression, but still a useful sort. Blair Athol II is a beautiful dog, full of character, with plenty of bone and substance, and a grand coat of the right texture. Unfortunately, he is not a good mover behind, otherwise he would be hard to beat. Donovan II is the right stamp and a good mover withal. Sefton Hero has plenty of quality to satisfy modern tastes, the length of his head is prodigious, but he has a soft expression, and has the appearance of being more at home on the hearth rug or show bench than on the side of some snow-clad hill.

Among the bitches plenty of weeds have been prominent, but in selecting Portington Belle, Barwell Pearl and Pansy, Ormskirk Goldie, Mother Shipton and Dorothy for pride of place, we have in them beautiful specimens of what a collie bitch should be, and which,with judicious mating, ought to produce stock combining beauty, utility and intelligence.

To conclude this retrospect, the question has to be answered, has the breed made any progress? The answer depends solely on the light in which the collie is viewed. As a thing of beauty, or as a drawing-room pet, there has been distinct progress; as a working animal the retrograde movement is still to be lamented. The breed’s working qualities ought no more to be lost sight of than those of a pointer, setter or spaniel, but since this has been the case it is impossible to speak of material progress and advance. Give us a good working dog and let beauty come as an adornment and an added grace, and we shall cry content.

Цитаты прям на злобу дня

Цитата:

There are now two classes of exhibitors —the moderates, who work quietly on the old lines, seeking to beautify and refine a working dog, and the progressives, who sacrifice utility and intelligence for beauty. At present the progressives hold the fort, and consequently the old Scotch collie is in danger of being improved off the face of the earth. “Why did you part with that bitch which was winning for you all over the country,” said one well-known exhibitor to another. “Because she was a fool,” was the reply. This, surely, should be the true spirit. Winning honors and prizes with brainless idiots should be but a poor compensation for the loss of intelligence and companionship, which every true fancier should look for in his dogs.

Сейчас есть два класса экспонентов: умеренные, которые спокойно работают по старым принципам, стремясь украсить и усовершенствовать рабочую собаку, и прогрессивные, которые жертвуют полезностью и интеллектом ради красоты. В настоящее время прогрессивисты удерживают форт, и, следовательно, старый шотландский колли находится под угрозой исчезновения с лица земли. «Почему ты расстался с той сукой, которая побеждала для тебя на всю страну», — сказал один известный экспонент другому. «Потому что она была дурой», — был ответ. Это, безусловно, должен быть истинный дух. Получение почестей и призов с безмозглыми идиотами должно быть лишь плохой компенсацией за потерю интеллекта и товарищеских отношений, которые каждый истинный любитель должен искать в своих собаках.

Цитата:

To conclude this retrospect, the question has to be answered, has the breed made any progress? The answer depends solely on the light in which the collie is viewed. As a thing of beauty, or as a drawing-room pet, there has been distinct progress; as a working animal the retrograde movement is still to be lamented. The breed’s working qualities ought no more to be lost sight of than those of a pointer, setter or spaniel, but since this has been the case it is impossible to speak of material progress and advance. Give us a good working dog and let beauty come as an adornment and an added grace, and we shall cry content.

Чтобы завершить этот ретроспективный обзор, необходимо ответить на вопрос, добилась ли порода какого-либо прогресса? Ответ зависит исключительно от освещения, при котором колли рассматривается. Как предмет красоты или как домашнее животное, был явный прогресс; как рабочее животное ретроградное движение все еще заслуживает сожаления. Рабочие качества породы следует упускать из виду не больше, чем качества пойнтера, сеттера или спаниеля, но поскольку это имело место, невозможно говорить о материальном прогрессе и улучшении. Дайте нам хорошую рабочую собаку, и пусть красота станет украшением и дополнительной славой, и мы возрыдаем.

Так вот это вечное противопоставление рабочих и выставочных собак уже тогда прям остро было. Учитывая, что прошло 130 лет... а воз и ныне там

далее фото из издания "Country Life Illustrated" 1897 года

Мария Доронина

Chiara, спасибо!
Познавательно)

HelgaB

Относительно Колли 19 века, очень рекомендую почитать хрестоматийные книги того периода

https://archive.org/details/dogwilliam0 ... ew=theater

https://archive.org/details/dogsofgreat ... ew=theater

https://archive.org/details/dogsofbriti ... ew=theater

Пока они ещё доступны для чтения.

Gaide

HelgaB
Спасибо, очень познавательно. :Rose:

Соответствует породному колли той эпохи:
° Отсутствие "украшалки" на ногах
° Нежелание, чтоб его тискали посторонние люди

° Врождённые способности к поиску и самостоятельной работе
° Готовность работать ради хозяина до полного изнеможения

Своеобразный получается портрет раннего колли, но мне нравится
Уж точно не "тефтеля"

Лукина Оксана

HelgaB
Спасибо за ссылки, интересно!

HelgaB

Я для себя отметила что WALSH пишет:

Цитата:

"A great deal of discussion has lately taken place in regard to the colley’s proper color and general appearance, and various descriptions have been given of what each writer considers the genuine breed"

В последнее время было много дискуссий относительно правильного окраса и общего вида колли, и были даны различные описания того, что каждый автор считает подлинной породой.
Возможно потому что как пишет Youatt:

Цитата:

In Great Britain. where he has principally to guide and not to guard the flock, he is omparatively a small dog.
He is so in the northern and open parts of the country, where activity is principally wanted; but, in the more enclosed districts, and where strength is often needed to turn an obstinate
sheep, he is crossed with some larger dog, as the rough terrier, or sometimes the pointer, or now and then the bull-dog: in fact, almost any variety that has strength and stoutness may be employed. Thus we obtain the larger sheep-dog and the drover’s dog. The sagacity, forbearance, and kindness of the sheep-dog are generally retained, but from these crosses
there is occasionally a degree of ferocity from which the sheep often suffer.

В Великобритании. там, где он главным образом должен вести, а не охранять стадо, он сравнительно маленькая собака. Он таков в северных и открытых частях страны, где в основном требуется такая деятельность; но в более закрытых районах и там, где часто нужна сила, чтобы повернуть упрямых овец, его скрещивают с какой-нибудь более крупной собакой, такой как длинношерстный терьер, иногда пойнтер, а иногда и бульдог: фактически можно использовать почти любую разновидность, обладающую силой и крепостью. Таким образом, мы получаем более крупную овчарку и погонщика. Проницательность, терпеливость и доброта овчарки обычно сохраняются, но от этих скрещиваний иногда бывает некоторая степень свирепости, от которой часто страдают овцы.
Далее обратим внимание что пишет WALSH

Цитата:

n Scotland and the north of England, as well as in Wales, a great variety of breeds is used for tending sheep, depending greatly on the locality in which they are employed, and on the kind of sheep adopted in it. The Welsh sheep is so wild that he requires a faster dog than even the Highlander of Scotland, while in the lowlands of the latter country a heavier, tamer, and slower sheep is generally introduced. Hence it follows that a different dog is required to adapt itself to these varying circumstances, and it is no wonder that the strains are as numerous as they are. In Wales there is certainly, so far as I know, no special breed of sheep-dog, and the same may be said of the north of England, where, however, the colley (often improperly called Scotch), more or less pure, is employed by nearly half the shepherds of that district, the remainder resembling the type known by that name in many respects, but not all. For instance, some show a total absence of “ruff” or “frill;” others have an open coat of a pied black and white color, with a setter shaped body; while others, again, resemble the ordinary drover’s dog in all respects. But, without doubt, the modern “true and accepted” colley has been in existence for at least thirty years, as proved by the engraving published in Youatt’s book on “The Dog,” nearly thirty years ago, which, by permission of his publisher, was accepted by me as the proper type in 1859, in my first treatise on the varieties of the canine race. That portrait was, I believe, copied from a specimen in the gardens of the Zoological Society, which for some years after its formation possessed a most interesting collection of dogs, now unfortunately abandoned

В Шотландии и на севере Англии, а также в Уэльсе для ухода за овцами используются самые разнообразные породы, в значительной степени зависящие от местности, в которой они используются, и от породы овец, принятых в нее. Валлийская овца настолько дика, что ей требуется более быстрая собака, чем даже шотландскому горцу, в то время как в низинах последней страны обычно заводят более тяжелую, ручную и медлительную овцу. Отсюда следует, что для приспособления к этим изменяющимся обстоятельствам требуется другая собака, и неудивительно, что породы так многочисленны, как они есть. Насколько мне известно, в Уэльсе, конечно, нет особой породы овчарок, и то же самое можно сказать о севере Англии, где, однако, колли (часто ошибочно называемая шотландской), более или менее чистая, используется почти половиной пастухов этого района, остальные во многих отношениях, но не во всех, напоминают тип, известный под этим названием. Например, некоторые демонстрируют полное отсутствие «ерша» или «оборки»; у других открытая шерсть пестрого черно-белого цвета с телом сеттерообразной формы; а другие, опять же, во всех отношениях напоминают обыкновенную гончую собаку. Но, вне всякого сомнения, современная «настоящая и признанная» колли существует не менее тридцати лет, о чем свидетельствует гравюра, опубликованная в книге Юатта о «Собаке» почти тридцать лет назад, которая с разрешения его издателя , был принят мной как правильный тип в 1859 г. в моем первом трактате о разновидностях собачьей расы. Этот портрет был, я полагаю, скопирован с экземпляра в садах Зоологического общества, которое в течение нескольких лет после своего образования владело интереснейшей коллекцией собак, ныне, к сожалению, заброшенной.

Цитата:

One of the most beautiful and useful of all dogs is the Scotch sheep-dog or colley, excellent engravings of which are given. With a fine muzzle he combines an intelligent-looking and rather broad head, and a clear but mild eye, a pricked and small ear slightly falling at the tip. His body is elegantly formed, and clothed with a thick coat of woolly hair, which stands out evenly from his sides and protects him from all the vicissitudes of the weather, neither wind, rain, nor snow being capable of penetrating it. The legs are well formed and the feet strong and useful. The tail is long, gently curved, and bushy, and the whole outline resembles that of the dingo; but the form is stouter and the limbs stronger. The color is nearly always black and tan, with little or no white; sometimes, however, the whole skin is of one or other of these colors, but then the dog is not considered nearly so valuable. The colley, like the true English sheep-dog, has always one or two dew-claws on each hind leg.

Одной из самых красивых и полезных собак является шотландская овчарка или колли, превосходные гравюры которых приведены. С тонкой мордой у него сочетается интеллигентная на вид и довольно широкая голова, ясный, но мягкий глаз, остроконечное и маленькое ухо, слегка ниспадающее на кончике. Его тело изящно сложено и покрыто густым шерстяным покровом, который ровно выступает с его боков и защищает его от всех превратностей погоды, так как ни ветер, ни дождь, ни снег не могут проникнуть в него. Ноги хорошо сформированы, а ступни сильные и полезные. Хвост длинный, плавно изогнутый и пушистый, и всем своим очертанием напоминает динго; но форма крепче и конечности крепче. Цвет почти всегда черно-подпалый, с небольшим количеством белого или без него; иногда, однако, полностью того или иного из этих цветов, но тогда собака не считается такой уж ценной. У колли, как и у настоящей английской овчарки, на каждой задней ноге всегда есть один или два прибылых пальца.

HelgaB

По характеру

Цитата:

But, irrespective of his obedience to his master’s orders, the independent intelligence of the colley is very high, and it is interesting to watch him or some other sheep-dog manage a wild sheep Which is to be driven against his will in a certain direction. Very frequently the sheep turns round and stands facing the dog, and the natural expectation on the part of a spectator is that the latter will try by barking to make the sheep turn round and progress somewhere. Not so, however; such a proceeding would inevitably cause a “break away,” and the course pursued is to lie quietly down and face the sheep. By this method in a short time the facing is changed to a quiet retreat, or sometimes to a slight backing, when the dog quietly moves a step or two forward and again lies down, till at last, by this kind of coaxing, the weaker animal of the two is quietly managed. In such cases a high degree of intelligence and tact is required which is partly innate and partly acquired from the shepherd by education. As a consequence there must be a due development of brain in the sheep-dog, and there must be a disposition to learn and obey the orders given. So clever is the colley that he will not be imposed on for any purpose not evidently useful, and it is seldom that he can be taught to execute tricks for the gratification of idle spectators, although there is no difficulty in getting him to perform them once or twice to please his master. If exhibited beyond this extent he is apt to sulk and refuse to show off; but when he is wanted to do really useful work, such as is required for the shepherd’s purposes, he is untiring, and will go on until utterly exhausted.

Но, независимо от его послушания приказам хозяина, самостоятельный интеллект колли очень высок, и интересно наблюдать, как он или какая-либо другая овчарка управляет дикой овцой, которую надо гнать против его воли в определенном направлении. . Очень часто овца оборачивается и становится лицом к собаке, и со стороны зрителя естественно ожидать, что последняя попытается своим лаем заставить овцу повернуться и куда-то продвинуться. Однако это не так; такое действие неизбежно привело бы к «отрыву», и выбранный курс состоит в том, чтобы спокойно лечь и лицом к овцам. Этим приемом за короткое время ориентация меняется на тихое отступление, а иногда и на легкую попятку, когда собака тихонько продвигается на шаг или два вперед и снова ложится, пока, наконец, с помощью такого рода уговоров, более слабое животное из двух спокойно управляется. В таких случаях требуется высокий уровень ума и такта, которые отчасти являются врожденными, а отчасти приобретаются пастухом в результате воспитания. Как следствие, у овчарки должно быть должное развитие мозга и должна быть предрасположенность к обучению и повиновению отдаваемым приказам. Колли настолько умен, что его не навязывают для какой-либо цели, явно не полезной, и редко его можно научить проделывать трюки для удовольствия праздных зрителей, хотя нетрудно заставить его проделать их один раз. или дважды, чтобы угодить своему хозяину. Если выставляться за пределы этой степени, он склонен дуться и отказываться хвастаться; но когда от него требуется действительно полезная работа, такая, какая требуется для пастушьих целей, он неутомим и будет продолжать до полного изнеможения

Цитата:

For the same reason, when the pet colley gets old and is submitted to the rebuffs of children or strangers, he is apt to become crusty in temper, and sometimes even savage; but he is always most affectionate to his master, and no dog seems to be more sincerely repentant when he has done wrong.

По той же причине, когда домашний колли стареет и подвергается отпору детей или незнакомцев, он склонен становиться сварливым, а иногда даже свирепым; но он всегда очень ласков к своему хозяину,

Gaide

HelgaB
Да, этот кусок поразил
"Independent intelligence" я бы перевела, как независимый ум.
В том отрывке, где колли нашёл сам (!) пропавшего мальчика и носил ему из дома (свою) еду, это особенно ярко выражено

Gaide

HelgaB писал(а):

Цитата:

For the same reason, when the pet colley gets old and is submitted to the rebuffs of children or strangers, he is apt to become crusty in temper, and sometimes even savage; but he is always most affectionate to his master, and no dog seems to be more sincerely repentant when he has done wrong.
По той же причине, когда домашний колли стареет и подвергается отпору детей или незнакомцев, он склонен становиться сварливым, а иногда даже свирепым; но он всегда очень ласков к своему хозяину,

" И, кажется, нет другой такой собаки, которая так искренне сокрушается, когда сделала что-то неправильно"

Это подчеркнутый кусочек, который выпал из перевода

Chiara

Но все равно продолжу про колли позапрошлого века. Какими они были тогда :OO:

Вот еще одна статья, очень четко характеризующая породу. Март 1893 год. Правда Американская, но тогда это особой роли не играло, так как Америка только начала импортировать собак и они все были английскими.

Текст: American Agriculturalist, March 1893

Any farmer who keeps a flock of sheep, or any considerable number of other live stock, can have no more useful helper than a well-bred Collie. Such a dog attends strictly to business at all times, and, unlike some other kinds farm help, never goes on a spree; never leaves work undone to attend a circus, nor strikes for higher wages just before harvest. It is quite probable that it was the study of collies and their doings which suggested to Madame de Stael her famous remark that the more she saw of dogs the less she thought of man. To witness the marvelous efficiency of collies on the Scottish highlands, or among the half-wild Herdwick flocks of Cumberland, or on the great sheep ranges of Colorado, one might suppose that they were peculiarly a mountain race of dogs. But they are equally at home in the crowded stockyards of the West. When the avenues of those yards are thronged with almost countless flocks and herds, the active and vigilant collies may be seen moving among and around them, keenly alert to every movement, guiding, leading and driving each flock just where it is to go, without confusion or intermixture. The collie is not only a useful and valuable helper, but is also most devoted and affectionate to its master, while meeting the advances of strangers with suspicious indifference. There is really a sort of instinctive nobility and dignity in the nature of a collie which leads it to expect kindness in return for its intelligent work and devoted attachment. A harsh, angry word seems to hurt it, as a buffet would a less sensitive dog, and, if actually struck a cruel blow, one of them will go around for days with a grieved and dejected air. A collie which was owned on a Colorado ranch, always met its master with exuberant demonstrations of joyful welcome, on his return from occasional visits to the nearest settlement. But if he showed evidence of intoxication, the dog was quick to recognize the fact, and its whole aspect changed instantly. With a look of chagrin if not reproach, to its disguised master, it would slink off until the following morning.

In form, color, markings, and general appearance, the collie is a comely dog. The size may be called medium, a typical specimen standing a little less than two feet high at the shoulders. The entire form is firm, muscular and well-knit with no superfluous flesh. The head is long, wide between the ears, and tapering downward to the pointed muzzle. The dark, rather close-set eyes are bright, keen and watchful; the ears small, thin and drooping backward, save when pricked up in moments of excitement. The general expression of the countenance is kindly, intelligent and alert. The hair upon most of the body, is long, straight and somewhat harsh on the outside, while beneath is a close, fine under-coat. A striking feature is the thick mane which extends from the top of the shoulders around the neck to the breast, where it meets the frill, which, especially if it is white, has a sort of doggish resemblance to the ruffled shirt-fronts which our grandfathers wore when in full dress. The fore-legs are straight and firm, covered with close, short hair in front, and feathered behind from the elbows to the feet. The hind legs are very muscular in the thighs, with well bent stifles, and feathered behind as low as the hocks, which are well let down. The tail is in its general appearance a marked characteristic of the breed. Long, and fully feathered, it is carried low to within a few inches of the end, which curls gracefully upward. It would be difficult to make in six lines a more life-like picture of a dog, than Burns gives of his own collie, Luath:

“His honest, sonsle, bawsn’t face
Aye gat him friends In ilka place.
His breast was white, his towzle back
Weel clad wl” coat of glossy black.
His gawcle tall wl’ upward curl
Hung o’er his hurdles wl’ a swirl.”

In the matter of color there is a great variety. A very popular combination is black with white markings and very pale tan points. There has at times been quite a fancy for black-and-tan collies— pure black, with points of dark reddish tan. Such dogs are not pure-bred, the dark tan indicating a cross of the Gordon setter. They are very handsome as pets, but lack the essential characteristics of the collie for practical usefulness. Various shades of sable, orange and gray are common colors of pure-bred collies. The young collie learns very readily if treated with invariable kindness, patience and tact. It is essential, however, that one person, only, shall be the trainer, and that no other attempt to give orders or pay much attention to the pup, while it is in training. The natural sagacity of the animal is so great that it quickly comprehends what is wanted and learns the best way to accomplish it. Our frontispiece and initial vignette present very faithful likenesses of the young collie Fordhook Eclipse (AKC 8. B. 25630) of the celebrated Fordhook kennels of Mr. W. Atlee Burpee, Philadelphia.The dog was born in February, 1892, the sire being the Champion Christopher 21876, dam Fordhook Smilax 14049. Fordhook Eclipse is a typical collie, the counterpart of his famous sire. In color he is a very dark sable, with white markings, and in head, body, limbs, coat and action, is a remarkably fine specimen of the renowned breed.

Excerpted from American Agriculturalist, March 1893

Вот прекрасная цитата, видно, что уже много внимания уделяется красоте -

Цитата:

По форме, цвету, отметинам и общему виду колли — миловидная собака. Размер можно назвать средним, типичный экземпляр ростом чуть меньше двух футов в плечах. Вся форма крепкая, мускулистая и хорошо сложенная, без лишней плоти. Голова длинная, широкая между ушами и сужающаяся книзу к заостренной морде. Темные, довольно близко посаженные глаза ясные, проницательные и настороженные; уши маленькие, тонкие и висячие назад, за исключением тех случаев, когда они навостряются в моменты возбуждения. Общее выражение лица доброе, умное и настороженное. Шерсть на большей части тела длинная, прямая и несколько жесткая снаружи, а под ней густой тонкий подшерсток. Поразительной особенностью является густая грива, которая тянется от верхней части плеч вокруг шеи к груди, где она переходит в оборку, которая, особенно если она белая, имеет какое-то собачье сходство с взъерошенными манишками, которые наши деды носили при парадной форме. Передние ноги прямые и крепкие, спереди покрыты густой короткой шерстью, а сзади от локтей до ступней оперены. Задние ноги очень мускулистые в бедрах, с хорошо согнутыми коленными суставами и опушены сзади до скакательных суставов, которые хорошо опущены. Хвост по своему общему виду является заметной характеристикой породы. Длинный и полностью оперенный, он держится низко, в пределах нескольких дюймов от конца, который изящно загибается вверх.

И цвету -

Цитата:

В вопросе цвета есть большое разнообразие. Очень популярна комбинация черного цвета с белыми отметинами и очень бледно-подпалыми точками. Иногда очень любили черно-подпалых колли — чисто черных с отметинами темно-рыжего подпала. Такие собаки не являются чистокровными, темный подпал указывает на помесь сеттера Гордона. Они очень красивы в качестве домашних животных, но лишены существенных характеристик колли для практической полезности. Различные оттенки соболиного, оранжевого и серого цвета являются обычными окрасами чистопородных колли.

Кстати! Вот на первой странице этой темы фото колли королевы Виктории Noble - в нем явно проглядывает именно Гордон сеттер.

HelgaB

Chiara писал(а):

Правда Американская, но тогда это особой роли не играло, так как Америка только начала импортировать собак и они все были английскими..

Все собаки были английскими, но вкусы англичан и американцев уже тогда были разные. Как в цветовой гамме, так и в общем строении колли.
это иллюстрация из английского издания

Это из американского издания N. Y. Bench Show, 1877, and owned by Mr. F. Bronson, of New York City.

HelgaB

Chiara писал(а):

from A Natural History of British and Foreign Quadrupeds by James Hamilton Fennell, 1841

Так например в этой английской книге, откуда выше представленная гравюра
https://archive.org/details/naturalhistoryof00fenn/page/144/mode/2up?ref=ol&view=theater

Цитата:

The height of the sheep-dog is generally about fifteen inches, and its colour is chiefly black or dark grey.

Высота овчарки обычно около пятнадцати дюймов, и его цвет в основном черный или темно-серый

Chiara

HelgaB писал(а):

Цитата:

The height of the sheep-dog is generally about fifteen inches, and its colour is chiefly black or dark grey.

Высота овчарки обычно около пятнадцати дюймов, и его цвет в основном черный или темно-серый

Так смотря про какую овчарку речь. Их даже в 1850х годах разделяли .

The Farmer’s Dictionary – 1854 писал(а):

“The Scotch shepherd’s dog, or colly. Characters: ears partly erect, head rather pointed, shaggy coat, and thick tail. To this animal large flocks are safely intrusted without any shepherd. He is also capable of managing cattle with great nicety.

The English sheep-dog, is larger. His colour is usually white and black, with half-pricked cars. He is an excellent cattle and farm dog.” The Farmer’s Dictionary – 1854

Вообще вот интересная схема происхождения пород.

HelgaB

эта схема была предложена американским любителем колли во второй половине 20 века. В ней есть разумное зерно, но ...
После прочтения этой книги именно эта схема мне лично кажется не совсем полной и верной.

В книге собраны выдержки из следующих книг:
Breeding, Training, Management, Diseases, Etc, Of Dogs; Together With An Easy And Agreeable Method Of Instructing All Breeds Of Dogs In A Great Variety Of Amusing And Useful Performances,
Including 31 Illustrations Of The Different Breeds Of Dogs. Francis Butler. 1857
House Dogs And Sporting Dogs - Their Varieties, Points, Management,Training, Breeding, Rearing And Diseases. John Meyrick. 1861
The New Book Of The Dog - A Comprehensive Natural History Of British Dogs And Their Foreign Relatives, With Chapters On Law,
Breeding, Kennel Management, And Veterinary Treatment. Vol. IV. Robert Leighton. 1907
Australian Barkers And Biters. Robert Kaleski. 1914
Terrier Dogs: Showing The Best Methods Of Breeding, Rearing,Feeding, Cropping, Physicing, Cure Of Diseases, Etc., With A Description Of The Points And Properties Of The Principal Breeds Of Dogs. Ed. James. 1873
The Illustrated Book Of The Dog. Vero Shaw. 1879
A History And Description Of The Modern Dogs Of Great Britain And Ireland (Non Sporting Division) Including Toy, Pet, Fancy, And Ladies Dogs. Rawdon B. Lee. 1899
The Dog Book - A Popular History Of The Dog, With Practical Information As To Care And Management Of House, Kennel, And Exhibition Dogs; And Descriptions Of All The Important Breeds - Vol. I.
James Watson. 1906
The New Book Of The Dog - A Comprehensive Natural History Of British Dogs And Their Foreign Relatives, With Chapters On Law, Breeding, Kennel Management, And Veterinary Treatment. Vol. IV.
Robert Leighton. 1907
The Kennel Encyclopaedia - Vol. III. Ken To Spa. J. Sidney Turner.1910
Dogs: Their History And Development - Vol. I. Edward C Ash. 1927
The Book Of Dogs. Stanley West. 1935
Hutchinson’s Dog Encyclopaedia - An Invaluable Work Of International Importance (Alphabetically Arranged For Easy Reference) On Breeds Of Dogs Of Every Country, With Full Veterinary Advice In Cases Of Accidents Or Ailments, Etc., On Their Care And Home Treatment,Contributed By The Most Eminent Authorities. Volume I, II, And III. Walter Hutchinson. 1935
The New Book Of The Dog - A Comprehensive Natural History Of British Dogs And Their Foreign Relatives, With Chapters On Law, Breeding, Kennel Management, And Veterinary Treatment. Vol. IV.
Robert Leighton. 1907
The Kennel Encyclopaedia - Vol. II. COL To KAN. J. Sidney Turner. 1908
The Dogs Of The British Islands. Being A Series Articles Of The Points Of Their Various Breeds, And The Treatment Of The Diseases To Which They Are Subject. J. H. Walsh. 1867
The Dog Book - A Popular History Of The Dog, With Practical Information As To Care And Management Of House, Kennel, And Exhibition Dogs; And Descriptions Of All The Important Breeds - Vol. I.
James Watson. 1906
The Kennel Encyclopaedia - Vol. I ABD To COL. J. Sidney Turner. 1907
Hutchinson’s Dog Encyclopaedia - An Invaluable Work Of International Importance (Alphabetically Arranged For Easy Reference) On Breeds Of Dogs Of Every Country, With Full Veterinary Advice In Cases Of Accidents Or Ailments, Etc., On Their Care And Home Treatment, Contributed By The Most Eminent Authorities. Volume III - P To Z. Walter Hutchinson. 1935
House Dogs And Sporting Dogs - Their Varieties, Points, Management, Training, Breeding, Rearing And Diseases. John Meyrick. 1861
House Dogs And Sporting Dogs - Their Varieties, Points, Management, Training, Breeding, Rearing And Diseases. John Meyrick. 1861
My Dog And I - Being A Concise Treatise Of The Various Breeds Of Dogs Their Origins And Uses. Written Expressly For The Novice. H. W.Huntington. 1897
A History And Description Of The Modern Dogs Of Great Britain And Ireland (Non Sporting Division) Including Toy, Pet, Fancy, And Ladies Dogs. Rawdon B. Lee. 1899
The Show Dog - Being A Book Devoted To Describing The Cardinal Virtues And Objectionable Features Of All The Breeds Of Dogs From The Show Ring Standpoint, With Mode Of Treatment Of The Dog Both In Health And Sickness. H. W. Huntington. 1901
Dog Shows And Doggy People. C. H. Lane. 1902
British Dogs - Their Points, Selection, And Show Preparation - With Illustrations Of Typical Dogs. W. D. Drury. 1903
The Twentieth Century Dog (Non Sporting) - Compiled From The Contributions Of Over Five Hundred Experts. Vol. I. Herbert Compton. 1904
Dogs And All About Them. Robert Leighton. 1910
The Kennel Encyclopaedia - Vol. III. Ken To Spa. J. Sidney Turner.1910
Dogs And How To Know Them - With Notes As To Their Care And Management And Other Information. Including A Standard Of Excellence And A Complete List Of Books On Dogs From 1800 In The
British Museum. Edward C. Ash. 1925
The Practical Dog Book - With Chapters On The Authentic History Of All Varieties Hitherto Unpublished, And A Veterinary Guide And Dosage Section, And Information On Advertising And On Exporting To All Parts Of The World. Edward C. Ash. 1930
About Our Dogs - The Breeds And Their Management. A. Croxton Smith. 1931
Dogs Of The World - The Author And Dogs - History And Origins Of Man’s Best Friend - Care And General Management - Feeding - Rearing - Exhibiting - Common Diseases, Etc. Arthur Craven. 1931
The Book Of Dogs. Stanley West. 1935
The Kennel Encyclopaedia - Vol. III. Ken To Spa. J. Sidney Turner.1910
Dogs And How To Know Them - With Notes As To Their Care And Management And Other Information. Including A Standard Of Excellence And A Complete List Of Books On Dogs From 1800 In The
British Museum. Edward C. Ash. 1925
The Practical Dog Book - With Chapters On The Authentic History Of All Varieties Hitherto Unpublished, And A Veterinary Guide And Dosage Section, And Information On Advertising And On Exporting To All Parts Of The World. Edward C. Ash. 1930
About Our Dogs - The Breeds And Their Management. A. Croxton Smith. 1931
Dogs Of The World - The Author And Dogs - History And Origins Of Man’s Best Friend - Care And General Management - Feeding - Rearing- Exhibiting - Common Diseases, Etc. Arthur Craven. 1931
The Book Of Dogs. Stanley West. 1935

ФОРУМ ЛЮБИТЕЛЕЙ КОЛЛИ И ШЕЛТИ

Колли , какие они были в 19 -м веке .

Кто сейчас на конференции